This is Javed Saab’s family.
This is his whole world. Pan to...
Talking about Javed, I’d like to say
when he sits somewhere, you can’t get him to move.
No one can dare try.
She doesn’t know how to do it.
Should I write a good song? Okay. I’ll do it.
This show is about him being a writer, right?
That aspect of his professional life everybody is kinda aware of.
But, what probably people are not very enlightened about
is what he was, or is, as a human being and as a father.
Hell hath no fury like Salim Khan scorned!
One look! And he never beat us up or anything like that.
He didn't need to do that.
All he had to do was, you know, just stare at us.
And you know we needed to mop the floor and all that.
You should’ve heard Arbaaz sing as a child.
His singing teacher sang like this...
- Who chose him? - We realised later...
You could’ve got a good music teacher for me.
But you chose someone with a nasal tone!
Children can only learn what their parents teach them.
[Zoya Akhtar] Any message for Pa’s 77th birthday?
Yeah. Happy Birthday, Pa!
Pa, you’re going to turn 77, what are your feelings?
77?
Okay, 77. Happy birthday!
Remember when you were 12 years old and you were in college,
anybody who was 22 was ancient.
And when you were 20, 30 was ancient and so on.
Old age moves ahead, walks ahead of you by 10 years.
So, I feel...
Pa, this was supposed to be a quick conversation.
- This is becoming a lecture. - When I’ll be 87...
I’ll be an old man. And there are only 10 years left.
Happy birthday, dear Jadu!
“Without hiding our faces, or bowing our heads, we lived.
“We looked at tyrants in the eye, we lived. ”
“Little does it matter if we live a night less
“As long as we live keeping the flame alight”
At least one of you, sit over there.
If you want to listen to my interview, stay.
You seem interested.
Salim saab and I,
actually, we were never
equals in a way. In work, yes.
Otherwise our relationship was one of a younger and older person.
He was like an elder brother to me.
My sister-in-law, Salma, Salim saab’s wife -
in a way they had played a parent’s role in my life.
Honey was a very good friend of mine.
Javed suggested her name during the casting of Seeta aur Geeta.
They soon became excited about their relationship.
Honey Irani’s mother told him:
“I don’t like you coming here every day, better marry her. ”
Salim saab said...
You need two witnesses to get married.
I replied: “There’s you. Obviously. I’d choose no one else. ”
He said: “Don’t make me a witness. ” I asked why.
“All the marriages I’ve been a witness for
“have fallen apart. ”
I am not a superstitious person at all.
So I said: “No, no, I don’t believe in all that.
“You will be my witness. ” But then he proved to be right.
We used to go to the movies together.
We needed entertainment because we were working so hard
and the wives were shopping.
Birthday parties, this, that, and the other, going for picnics.
They used to have these cricket matches, you know,
Salim and Javed.
So all families taking their food and all that,
kids and everyone going there and playing cricket.
With their caps and cricket batting pads.
Those were great days!
Nice!
All my memories of
time spent with other children,
hugely involved spending time, especially with Sohail and Alvira.
Salman and Arbaaz were older than I was.
So as much as I wanted to hang out with them,
I don't think they wanted to hang out with me.
I was like a proper kid-kid, like, just running around
doing stupid things like eating grass.
You know what I’m saying? That kind of nonsense.
It was just like, everybody was like family.
Anyone could go to anyone's house.
Farhan and Zoya - I’ve taught them how to cycle.
I was just like kind of struggling
and I remember, Salman is like,
“Just go for it!
“Nothing is going to happen. You'll fall.
“Then you'll get up and you'll go again. ”
And it's something that stays, you know.
Salman used to ride his bicycle on the parapet nearby.
Yes.
[Interviewer] And you let him do that?
No. When I saw him, I got angry, and stopped him.
All that mischief took place in secret.
Even today many things are done in secret!
They used to have one sitting room there and,
they used to have a lot of fun working.
We could hear them laughing and people walking in and
lunches and they used to have drinks.
And the house was open all throughout the night.
They had a blast.
And they really, really enjoyed their work.
Kiddo, I’m the headmaster of the pickpockets’ school.
There’s something more valuable than money in my wallet.
It’s not easy stealing it from me.
Perfect your skills elsewhere! Go!
They gave a line of blockbusters.
So, even the minor movies like Haath ki Safai,
but for another writer, I’d say: “Wow! He also wrote Haath ki Safai. ”
For Salim-Javed you’d say: “Okay, Haath ki Safai”
Because their other films were bigger hits.
So it got underlined because their body of work was so immense -
so huge that even a lesser film, but a successful film was counted as
“Not that great. ”
They wrote very well. They were confident about their writing.
But the film industry works in a particular way.
And you have to maintain some diplomacy.
And they were unwilling to do that.
With the hits, hits, hits, hits. It starts getting to you.
Starts going to your head.
I found them very arrogant at times. Extremely arrogant.
Which I think also
somewhere affected their judgement of scripts.
Because they started feeling that: “We can’t do anything wrong. ”
“We’re perfect. We know exactly the pulse of the audience. ”
“We know what they want. ”
And that’s what happened to Immaan Dharam.
You’ve sworn on these sacred books and yet lied.
Today swear on these same books
with total honesty and make a genuine promise
that you’ll never lie again.
I remember my father telling me when they saw the film:
“We made a big mistake. ”
“At the interval point, they swore never to lie. ”
“That’s where the film was over. ”
- We swear. - Yes, we swear.
We’ll die but we will never lie.
One adds a little salt to dough,
so the bread is tastier.
The mistake we made in Immaan Dharam was relying too much on salt,
the bread became all salt!
Take this Holy Gita.
As long as we hold these sacred books in our hands,
so what if we die.
When writing Immaan Dharam,
were you trying to experiment? That didn’t work?
No, no, we weren’t trying to experiment at all.
Maybe if we had, the picture would’ve worked!
Sometimes you do make mistakes.
There’s a saying: “The best swimmer can also drown in water”.
They had put out an ad saying,
this is our answer to all critics and criticism, etc.
And it fell flat on its face
because it was one of the biggest flops of that decade.
And it also had Amitabh Bachchan,
it had Salim-Javed. What more do you want?
And yet it flopped.
People here are happier at your failure
than they are at their success.
Okay?
Of course when Immaan Dharam didn’t run,
there were people celebrating.
Parties were thrown.
Champagne flowed.
And the most upsetting thing was
the community that benefited the most were the writers.
They were celebrating.
“Good! It bombed. ”
It did annoy people that all their pictures were hits.
People said: “They think they’re gods!
And then how they used to provoke people.
So naturally you wouldn’t want...
“Good. They deserve a flop. That’ll bring them to their senses. ”
You know that kind of a thing.
That was bound to happen.
Ten films in a row were hits.
You can count the ten titles, if you want.
After that one film didn’t do well.
Then again ten films in a row did well.
It was the first caper movie of its kind in Hindi cinema.
It had a different kind of screenplay.
The audience could not budge from their seats.
We held their attention.
The plot had constant twists and turns.
I can’t tell who appreciated it - I know the film was a big hit -
but how many people noticed that
the usual anchors in the story
such as emotions were missing?
“Try to understand me, Ma. ” There was no such tropes.
No scene where the hero is praying to God.
In the subplot involving Pran’s kids -
we had the opportunity to emotionalise those scenes, we didn’t.
We did not sacrifice the film’s tempo.
The story kept moving forward.
There were two very different characters.
One was that very suave Don.
The way he managed himself, his clothing, his attitude.
He had a swag.
But the other fellow was from the streets.
And then while this character has now decided to play the Don,
to convert back into this swag
was very interesting as an actor. Lovely challenge.
I was a huge Bachchan fan. I loved his movies.
When I saw Don, I remember actually getting scared.
When you see that initial part of the film
where he's the bad guy.
Like he’s so threatening.
When I was toying with this idea of wanting to do
the remake of Don,
was predominantly to give more life to the character
of the first 15 minutes of that film.
Don.
We grew up watching Hindi films,
I think Don was one of those films which
We grew up watching Hindi films,
I could become an actor and do something in life.
Very few people get the opportunity
to revisit a pleasant childhood memory.
The chance to relive an entire film.
It's like you've grown up watching that movie
and oh my God!
I mean it's a small part, it's a special part.
And of course like... I mean, she gets killed in the film and everything.
And a mainstream actor doing that part -
Everyone was like: “Yeah, are you sure?”
I was like - you know what, I really want to do it
because I want to be part of Don.
Salim-Javed wrote parts, of course, for the angry young man
but they also had strong women characters.
They might have had lesser screen time
than the hero of the film,
but they were very impactful.
Look, don’t misbehave with me!
Put that medicine back and get out from here!
We didn’t write women-oriented films.
Maybe because we didn’t spend a long time within a family.
Our lives were like living in an all-boys club.
But the women characters in our films,
take any of our films,
they are not namby-pamby women.
They are strong women. They are professional. They work.
Promising backgrounds to those characters.
But the moment they enter the protagonist's plot,
the hero's plot, they become inconsequential.
At best they become foils.
By the way, Mr Shekhar,
we’ve spoken a lot about women’s liberation.
I mean the Hema Malini character in Trishul,
she's an independent CEO, running a company of construction
that means she's absolutely in the business.
What does she do?
She sings some wonderful songs.
She adds a bit of humour and vivaciousness to the proceedings
and thank you very much.
When it comes to key plot turning points - no way!
But again that is the time they were writing in.
If you see like Seeta aur Geeta,
it’s Hema Malini’s character who is the lead
and to do that in, I don’t know, early 70s...
All their women were strong characters.
They all had agency. They all were independent.
Yeah, it's not about whether the women had big roles or small roles,
it was how the women were written.
- Were they relevant? - Were they well-rounded?
May I ask you what made you send me flowers?
Because I wanted you to call me.
May I ask why you wanted me to call you?
Because I want to meet you.
Dostana was one of your only films which was slightly fluffy.
Yes. That’s true.
Our craft shows in that film. It has less passion and emotion.
There was nothing wrong with the screenplay.
But when you talk about our older movies like Deewaar or Trishul,
Sholay or Zanjeer,
the fire in those films was missing in Dostana.
And also, I'm sure as the angry young man
got bigger and bigger and bigger, then you know
how do you find new ways to retell
the angry young man or what does he have to be angry about now?
You know so I think eventually
the greatest sort of artistic flourishes become formulaic.
- Listen, Ravi. - Yes, Vijay?
Did you get it?
The girl’s made a fool of us.
Got it.
- She didn’t own that car. - Got it.
Shaan made a lot of money, it was a hit.
Because the film had a lot of content.
Many good things in the film.
But it kept getting compared to Sholay, so people felt it wasn’t as good.
It’s crazy! Same team, same two writers,
virtually the same cast.
And not one memorable scene, not one memorable line.
The bald head of Shakaal - very nice by itself, but
compared to the earthy dialogue of Sholay,
not... not that.
You people think
that you can give me some new information
that I am unaware of...
They did exactly the same thing as Sholay.
It was the same template, but they urbanised the whole thing.
And that didn't work at all.
If you’ve climbed up and made sure that you’re on a pedestal,
then when you come down, it’s going to be that much harder.
That’s what happened when their films didn’t do well.
They bore the brunt of that a lot, because of their overconfidence and their...
We call it overconfidence, they were confident.
But the world does not think like that.
They called it arrogance.
One thing that, perhaps, I must say in all honesty,
Salim-Javed did not realise the value of goodwill.
It was a mistake we made.
When they get the chance, the world will punish you.
So did you get punished?
Yes, I think so. We had given two super-duper hit films.
Don
and Trishul.
Both of them were golden jubilee films.
And then there was no line of producers standing at our doors. No.
Success has destroyed more people than failure has.
It’s a fact. Success can go to your head.
And many times you start making wrong decisions.
You start showing attitude. You have to control that.
You have to see that it doesn’t happen to you.
The phone used to keep on ringing.
He’d say: “Turn it off. I’m getting disturbed”.
So the phone used to be off the hook.
Then came a time,
he’d say: “Check the phone! Is the line dead?”
And nobody called.
Definitely the trade started feeling
something was not quite right.
And then suddenly one day they say:
“We are not together. ” Of course it shook the industry.
Definitely. Because it wasn’t as if they were only
working for themselves.
They were delivering hit after hit.
So producers’ lives were being made because of them.
Directors’ lives, stars’ lives.
Distributors all over India, their lives.
Cinema-owners used to wait for Salim-Javed films.
Now if that team is no longer a team,
of course, it's not going to be the same.
We just got to know that they have split.
No explanations were given.
There were speculations.
But...
It was a statement and that’s it. The doors were closed.
The only thing I know is Javed came home one day,
and he says: “I have some bad news for you. ”
I said: “What happened? Have you banged the car again?”
He says: “No, I have split with Salim saab. ”
So I asked him. I said: “Why?”
He says: “Don’t ever ask me that. ”
That was it.
I remember when the partnership broke up,
so...
Dad came home, he was disturbed.
I was sitting at the dining table in the hall and he said:
“Javed and my partnership is... er, he wants to break off. ”
I asked: “Why? Didn’t you say anything?”
He said: “No... ”
He was telling my mom.
“It wasn’t that I was walking to his house,
“and Javed was standing in the balcony, and he didn't like my walk.
“Or the track pants I was wearing - he didn’t like them.
“He must have his reasons.
“If he wants to go, he wants to go. ”
So that's all he said. That's all he said.
When you start working together, you’re new in the business,
you don’t know many people, so you keep each other company.
So perhaps in 24 hours, we were together for 18 hours.
Then I made new friends, he made new friends,
and slowly our circles started separating.
Then our evening meetings stopped.
That was a reason too. But that was not the major reason.
The major reason, according to me,
was that the spring of our careers was drying up.
Fatigue was showing in our work too. No doubt about that.
Yes, we did part ways. But we did it in a very civilized way.
Normally what happens when people part ways,
they throw mud at each other, and talk ill.
We sometimes argued. We’re not perfect. But no one is.
I’d give my side of the story, and so would he.
We just never talked about our parting.
Even if someone asked why or how we parted -
we said we didn't know. We don't like to talk about it.
We only speak about the good times we had.
I, for one, was...
was very sad that it happened.
And even though I had the opportunity to work with
Salim saab and Javed saab,
separately, even after they had parted ways.
but yes, them being together was an altogether different story.
Destiny, darling. It's destiny.
They say there’s a shelf-life, an expiry date.
That’s how it is.
Everything in life has that kind of cycle which -
very rarely does it last forever and...
you feel for it also because it ended. It should not have ended.
Amazing times.
Short, but amazing.
I mean cinema history without this chapter...
Dad used to really love Javed saab.
And...
he was dad’s closest friend.
I think they were more than friends. You know...
I don't know how exactly to describe it,
I think without getting too emotional
and saying there were like brothers, you know what I’m saying?
But they were partners in the true sense.
I think that's probably the best way to put it.
You know there were things like Salim telling me -
he used to go to the races.
And he said that: “I always would buy the jackpot ticket.
“And I had it in my mind that if I ever won the jackpot,
“it would be Salim-Javed won the jackpot. ”
Did the split change the family equations?
To a certain degree, I mean of course, it did have an effect,
because you realise something is not the same.
But, at no point,
did I ever feel like I can't go there.
At no point did anybody say that listen now we are -
you know there was none of that stuff.
But I mean you knew that something has changed.
I mean obviously the energy about it was not the same.
But there was one - which you can say
light at the end of the tunnel for us as a family.
And that was to some extent we got our father back.
And what I mean is that,
when we were too young
either we were in school by the time my dad used to wake up,
or when we used to come back, he was at work.
So we missed him when we were much younger.
And when the spilt happened,
that made him spend a lot more time at home.
And that's where I think the real bonding happened between
him and us.
I'm sure it affected them both in terms of...
I mean although you’ve done all this great work together,
but when you go off and start doing it by yourself,
you're again now needing to create an identity just for yourself.
So you’re starting from zero. It's not easy.
So when we parted ways,
there was this story I wrote.
And Arbaaz asked: “Can I come and hear the narration?”
I felt that my children wanted to see
how capable a writer their father was, individually.
Will we die of hunger now?
Till the time we were together,
the story lines were usually his.
We’d write the screenplay together, and I’d write the dialogue.
When I was on my own,
I had to do everything: story, screenplay, dialogue.
And it happened quite a few times with me,
that a producer gave me a huge signing amount,
asking me to write a script. I had that much credit in the industry.
They assumed my writing would be okay.
And now I'm thinking of an idea, it's not coming to me.
So, why don't I leave the city? Run away and change my name
to Shyam Sunder or anything. Find some kind of job.
And tell no one I was, or am, a writer.
I could start life afresh.
It must have been a tough time for you
because you had parted ways,
and your marriage was also breaking up around the same time.
So Honey is one person in the world
towards whom I feel guilty.
And she is the only person.
60 to 70 percent responsibility lies on my shoulders
for the failure of that marriage.
If I had as much understanding as I have today,
perhaps things would not have gone wrong.
It’s very difficult to accept.
But that's how it is.
There was a phase when I was angry with him.
I felt betrayed by him.
You know there was all those very normal emotions
that I did go through as a child growing up.
After the split happened, we lived with our mother.
So we ended up spending more time with our mother.
But yeah, it took time to go back to normal - I think with my dad
and I think Shabana played a big part in creating that normalcy.
In any relationship,
which is a triangular relationship,
it is very personal and it’s very painful
and especially when there are children involved.
And it becomes more hurtful because
people are so quick to pass
judgement and to say:
“She’s a home-breaker! She’s a home-destroyer!”
And things like that.
Obviously, I wanted to explain my point of view,
but then I figured if I did that
I would end up hurting far too many people.
And so wisdom lay in keeping
quiet and not explaining myself and getting the brickbats
which obviously I would get.
And I give huge credit to Honey.
I give huge credit to her, because see...
she could’ve very easily filled the children
with tales against me. She just didn't do that.
She gave them the security
that you do not have to consider her an evil stepmother.
She and I have a very warm and a really nice relationship.
And I’m very grateful. Because we were all very graceful.
All three of us were graceful, but she, above all.
She had the most to give and she gave that.
I guess what had to happen happened.
But, one thing I'll definitely say is that
we’re still very good friends.
I mean I think we are the best friends now. Yeah.
So I mean I know he’s there for me whenever I need him.
And he knows that I’m there for him, whatever he does.
However many accidents he has!
But yeah.
And the kids are there and they’re perfect with them,
even Shabana has been very nice.
Come.
- I’ll see you. - Aunty is leaving.
Where are you going? Have lunch and go.
It'll take time.
- Sit for a while. - Okay.
So do you remember when you met Salim saab for the first time?
So we were shooting for this film, Kabli Khan.
And guess what? He was the villain and I was the heroine.
Can't imagine Salim saab as a villain!
And they gave him that funny hat,
that Napoleon type of hat.
And I used to have my own chair with Helen written at the back
and some books.
But we never used to converse with each other.
The first time I really met him was in Don.
After the day’s shoot, Helen would come over.
She’d have a glass of wine or a glass of beer,
then she’d leave.
How did you fall in love?
If you’ve fallen in love, you’d know.
Those who haven’t - won’t know.
My mom never ever influenced us to...
have or say anything against our father.
You know she had her troubles, but she never ever influenced us
like your dad is like this, or this is what he is doing.
Never.
I first called all my children and discussed it with them.
I told them about the situation.
I said: “You may not understand now,
“but when you grow up, you’ll understand everything.
“I am in love with Helen aunty, she’s there.
“I know that you cannot love her as much as your mother,
“but I want the same respect for her. ”
We still call her aunty.
You know because she was Helen aunty at that time,
so we still, you know...
though we treat her as a mother, but we call her Helen aunty.
Today obviously she’s a part of our life.
And when she’s not there,
each one of us makes it a point to find out where she is.
More than us, it’s my mom who says: “Call Helen.
“The food is ready. ”
Or we have to go somewhere or attend some festival.
She’s a part of everything.
I mean they don't have to care for me or love me or anything.
But the respect and the love I get, it's unbelievable.
Love is rooted in respect.
The day you lose respect, love is over.
The day it’s over: “Goodbye! You’re dead to me. ”
Then... ?
“Where there was a wall yesterday, you see a door today.
“It was time of the crazy lover you see. ”
You may feel at first you’re banging your head against a wall.
Then by constantly hammering on that wall again and again,
you make a way through - a door is made.
I feel many people in this world could have become writers.
They did not make it because
in the early demoralising period of struggle,
they had given up.
If they had stuck with it a little longer,
tolerated the humiliation, kept at it single-mindedly,
they would have found a clearing in the path ahead.
But they didn't get to the clearing.
If I was asked what helped me most in my writing,
I would say reading.
These are the screenplays of very well-known films.
This Land Is Mine.
This is Pearl Buck’s 593
If I was to advise writers
about what they should do, I’d say “Read”.
That’s all.
I’ve never come across better teachers than Salim-Javed,
just by watching. They’re not even teaching us.
But just by watching their screenplays unfold on a screen.
I think initially I didn’t get it.
How do I start in this industry? It takes time to navigate the maze.
Especially for writers because we do not have faces that go out there.
Nobody asks who's the writer of the film.
Like it's mostly the director only.
There are so many directors who are not
talking about their writers at all.
Or they say: “I and my writer are writing this”.
Why are you and your writer writing this?
Why is your writer not writing it? Right?
People actually believe
in filmmaking - the story is a minor element.
It’s nothing. I told you the story, now develop it.
Somehow people don't think it is an art.
People think it is just an ordinary,
whatever, ordinary talent of observation.
The writer has written it.
But that “written it” is as if he has merely
transcribed it, or he's typed it out.
From my first film to my last film,
everyone keeps telling me that
this is the highest we’ve ever paid any writer.
“You’re an artist. You should not think about money. ”
Of course, so ensure it that I don’t think about money!
I’ve reached that point where I’m like fine,
you want to commission me?
We can have an ethical working relationship
where I get paid on time, I'll write for you.
But, even that expectation is not fulfilled most of the time.
So, at any given point of time,
I've had to work like 3 to 4 other jobs.
You want to be a writer,
you need another profession that'll pay the bills.
Or you need to be really rich.
Or if you have money, invest that money well, okay?
When you... devalue the writer,
then the writer, in quest of power, wants to become a director.
So what happens is that many good writers have been lost to
mediocre direction.
And the writer can only be given power
by taking a little of the power away from the stars.
Because there is a law of constancy of power.
You really can't create it. You have to take what the others have.
If you’re saying he should be the highest paid in the project,
that should happen and is possible.
Then they’d have to be big stars like Salim-Javed were.
Can you name a single writer today
whose name alone draws the audience?
Writing needs to become aspirational.
And I have been saying this on my own accord.
I keep mentioning Salim-Javed,
because after them, you know, we don't have superstar writers.
We don't have writers who
help a child aspire to want to be a writer.
Looking back, are you content with your life?
I’m very... highly contented.
What else do you want from life?
The most important thing is
that your children respect you, and listen to you. All that.
Do you regret anything?
No, I don’t have any regrets or feel any guilt.
Nothing like that.
When I look back,
there’s nothing I’d like to redo. Never felt that.
The light has softened.
The first published collection of my poetry
carries a quote by Krishan Chander on the first page.
“What have you achieved in your life?
“Did you love someone with all your heart?
“Did you give wise counsel to a friend?
“Did you look at the child of an enemy
“with love in your eyes?
“Where there was darkness, did you bring a ray of light?
“In all the time that you have lived
“what has been the meaning of your life?”
- [Avinash Gowariker] Uncle, I’m going to swap chairs. - Yes, that’s fine.
Please don’t get up. There’s no need.
- Come, sit. - Please, you sit.
You’ll just do whatever you want, I’ll keep clicking.
This is the body language I want.
Both of you just looking into my lens.
Don’t scare me, sir!
You’re the director, we’ll have to do as you say.
- After all, this is your last wish. - Hold it! Fab.
I’m perched at the edge of my seat as if I were asking for a job.
Why don’t you just let him grab my neck?
He’s saying: “Just go for his neck. ”
Superb!
Very good. Touch wood!
This one was very good.
I didn’t expect this one to turn out so well.